Basement Philosophies

Here is a basement classic: would the world be better off if the USA became so dysfunctional as to be unable to substantially control events beyond its borders? Like if it broke into 3 or 4 pieces fairly soon, or a worst-case open borders scenario resulted in internal disorder and paralysis. Can we even say that preservation of the USA is an objective good in any sense?
 
Here is a basement classic: would the world be better off if the USA became so dysfunctional as to be unable to substantially control events beyond its borders? Like if it broke into 3 or 4 pieces fairly soon, or a worst-case open borders scenario resulted in internal disorder and paralysis. Can we even say that preservation of the USA is an objective good in any sense?
On reflection probably the single worst thing about the USA is that we buy shit from China and are an integral part of that entire mess. A scenario where the decline or breakup of the US in any way leads to the further rise of China is nightmare mode for the entire world. A scenario where big changes in the US (maybe even good changes, things we like) leads to the implosion of China is the biggest possible win.

At least we have tariffs now, moving in the right direction under Trump.
 

Mohican

Well-known member
Here is a basement classic: would the world be better off if the USA became so dysfunctional as to be unable to substantially control events beyond its borders? Like if it broke into 3 or 4 pieces fairly soon, or a worst-case open borders scenario resulted in internal disorder and paralysis. Can we even say that preservation of the USA is an objective good in any sense?
Yes, and we'd be better off, too
 
I have had another basement thought. We know that a big part of the job of the president is to facilitate a "good economy." That is what they signed up for, and I suppose I would feel duty bound to do the same if in that position.

But is this "good?" Would it be good to increase average household income or GDP per person beyond current figures? What would be the benefits of this? Would it not be better to gradually reduce average household income (and thus consumption) over time from 50K to something like 32K?

Keep in mind that the current US GDP per capita is 59K, and you generally don't see objective physical lack of wellbeing (life expectancy, infant mortality, etc) until nations fall under 15K in per capita GDP, even then much depends on inequality and there are certain more egalitarian places that achieve first world parity on basic objective measures at under 15K or even under 10K.
 

Porter

Well-known member
At this point “sucesss” is guaged by level of comfort and stuff by the majority of our countrymen. Until there is a change in value system we’re stewed. Plus you make more money doing pretend, interpersonal, bullshit half the time than having a skill or making things. The shell game @Master is talking about becomes inevitable for most not already set on their path.
 
Assuming absolute autistic freedom of action to enact any system we please:

If you want to get down to, "what is a good economy?" the only real question is that of salvation. Under what economic system is it most likely that the average man will lead a life that results in him going to heaven?

I would argue the current economy is deliberately designed to damn as many souls as possible, to develop in them anti-salvation habits of thought and action. A "good" economy would work in the opposite way.
 

Servo

Well-known member
Nah, a strong middle class is important for a nation. I think we need to revisit what type of economy we have though. This "service based" barista economy we've adapted over the past 25-30 years is bullshit.
MotN's point goes specifically to the benefits of increased production of stuff, and accompanying increased consumption. These things are assumed to be good/beneficial according to mainstream economics / political science. Is increased production of plastic houses, corn, or even automobiles really "good" just because it increases GDP and gives the average citizen "consumer" (barf) more money to spend at Panera? Because that's what the average normie wants to do with it.
 
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